Metagame - SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [NEW TIERING RESULTS POST 11597] (2024)

Now that we're nearing the 3 week mark with no QBs or suspects imminently approaching, I wanted to share my thoughts on the metagame and the Pokemon that have everyone's attention. These are my thoughts, not those of the council!!

Shockingly positive!

I was very averse to Deoxys-Speed's presence in the metagame at first, especially with how potent of a lead it could be and its insane set variety, but some conversations with the council regarding the lead metagame and some direct application of said sets (and offensive sets) have led me to see it as a top tier presence, but one that is able to be checked quite well. Its defensive profile is paltry and priority smites it in general, which gives offense a ton of flexibility in handling it. Nasty Plot has the potential to be really dangerous and is the closest thing to broken at its disposal, especially with good support. That being said, that's really the case with any top tier, especially ones whose potency comes from more dedicated archetypes (like the Psychic Terrain teams you also see DeoS on). But with all that in mind, I've frankly enjoyed its utility and Speed tier in this metagame and with everything all said and done, it has a generally positive influence. I've really liked using offensive hazard-setting and all-out attacking variants, even if they are a bit rough to fit. I encourage you to give it a try if you haven't already.

Outclassed..

I'm gonna be honest Darkrai bros, Darkrai... kind of sucks?? I feel like this metagame is chock full of Dark-types that are at each others' throats competing for a teamslot, and Darkrai isn't even in the top 5 of them imo. Hisuian Samurott, Kingambit, Meowscarada, Weavile, Ting Lu just to name a few. Each of these Pokemon provide something consistently desirable and applicable to teams, with their secondary typings admittedly playing a pretty big role in it and their gameplan. Darkrai's main niche over them is Nasty Plot and Choice Scarf, but even the former feels generally outclassed by Weavile as a boosting sweeper since Triple Axel is a nutty wincon with Tera Ice Shard to boot. This leaves Choice Scarf as an unoccupied niche within its competition, which is probably where it shines the most thanks to Trick access and a truly elite Speed tier. This set isn't bad at all, and is really nice as an anti-offense tool, but it's far from packing the utility and consistent progress-making I crave from other fast offensive Dark-types like Weavile and Meowscarada.

Potent; keep an eye on, but not pressing

Iron Boulder plays a similar kind of role to Deoxys-Speed as the offensive check to end all offensive checks, but one that sets up easier and has a more consistent click in Mighty Cleave to make it more terrifying comparatively. Especially with Roaring Moon around, Iron Boulder rounds off offense extremely well by being an elite win condition and offensive check to much of the metagame. It brutally mauls offense but struggles into bulkier structures and balances featuring Ting Lu that have recently defined high ladder, which have formed naturally to combat many of the powerful new additions, including Iron Boulder itself. For offense players like myself it can feel oppressive (and I even thought it was at one point) but the metagame doesn't favor it to a point of top priority at the moment. I personally am keeping a close eye on it though; I've been seeing a lot of set innovations taking advantage of Tera and moves like Taunt and Substitute to flip the script on some bulkier teams.

Help I do not know what I'm doing

Despite being the most standout target for a lot of the council I personally have no idea how to feel about it. On paper it is a monster that is extremely hard to stop with its bulk, Burn immunity, and access to recovery making it a win condition that can be very hard to break past and stop from running you down. But in practice I'm not quite sure if it's achieved the game warping result I've been hearing so much about, at least when I personally used it. I've also been really unlucky and been crit what feels like every time I set up with it, so maybe I'm just losing my mind and I'm running into bad Gouging Fire users to round my confusion off. I also believe I'm not running the cream of the crop of its sets; I'd be curious to know what sets you guys are running so I can take a more conclusive stance on it!

Really, really good

This Pokemon is a f*cking menace; Thunderclap aside, its bulk and raw power are truly asinine, and are what really make it stand out. Furthermore they are augmented by Booster Energy and access to Calm Mind. Even with a STAB combination that doesn't illicit the most fear compared to others, it very much so gets the job done given its bulk and ability to stack boosts and use Tera (Blast). However, the fact it can't boost its Speed without making some kind of major sacrifice unlike Gouging Fire plays a pretty major role in responding to it and gives Ground-types the ability to check it in most cases, which either requires it to sustain a hard hit or use Tera. I don't believe it is an unreasonable Pokemon to check since its Achilles heel really is Speed, which becomes very noticeable when your main checks (including offensive ones) are immune to your priority move, and when many offensive checks resist it (offensive Dragon-types).

Potent; keep an eye on, but not pressing

Volcarona is... strange. I feel like in general it is not a pressing presence compared to its cohorts, as it does have considerably more stringent setup conditions compared to when it could freely run down teams earlier in the generation. It's one of those Pokemon that reads to me as something that is waiting for the correct development to truly achieve its earlier caliber of success; stresh's Tera Dragon idea is the one I've found the most success with alongside Water. That being said, it is still a behemoth win condition with much appreciated defensive utility to bat and demands your respect, lest it runs away with the game. Much like Iron Boulder it's something that I think needs time to be fully and effectively evaluated.

Overrated

DLC2 is a far more hostile environment to it and I think damages the argument many advocated for in DLC1. The fact of the matter is that Good as Gold is the core of its value, and while that cannot be understated, the whole package of Gholdengo is meeting far more pressure to be the effective removal immunity it was earlier in the generation. That aside, I don't think Gholdengo is really the core catalyst of Gen 9's hazard problem and removing it won't magically fix it, as other council members have already said. That being said, I do think Good as Gold and being a bulky Ghost-type makes it a Pokemon added to teams as a more dedicated answer to removal, which does include Rapid Spin, so removing Gholdengo from the tier would move the needle a bit imo but definitely not fix things due to the insane Spikes and Knock Off distribution. Of course though once things are more stable I am very happy to look into it more, but compared to the rest of the metagame I am not a fan of prioritizing it at all.

My top candidate

If there's a Pokemon I personally am the most wary of, it is Kyurem. While losing Roost is an extreme blow to it, access to Loaded Dice and Tera (Blast) lets it ditch the bulky Dragon Dance shenanigans it got up to last generation and go full throttle, while still being a Pokemon that rips everything apart with its Special attacks and adding a layer of unpredictability to complicate counterplay. Both sets are warping in their own right and apply pressure in a way I personally don't see as healthy, especially when you factor in its Speed tier, Dragon-type, and natural bulk. It detests hazard stacking against it as HDB are rough to fit on it given what you want to use it for, but two things: 1: Cinderace is an amazing partner for it and 2: HDB AoA is still very potent even without a damage boosting item. I personally feel as though Kyurem would be my personal choice for what we target first, but I am still open to being convinced otherwise.

Potent; keep an eye on

Roaring Moon is really rough to navigate, but as potent as I think it is, I also think it has its share of checks to help you bring it down. When you factor in its disliking of priority, hazards, status, and a good amount of physically bulky options to pressure it (since it can't hit a ton super effectively), the many high ladder balances we are seeing very clearly have their share of options to contain it. Though, I would say it being contained is more relative to a card castle or a late stage Jenga game. It is undoubtedly a top tier Pokemon and I do think it is treading very close to being something that is worth a suspect as it reaps upon stability imo, but while we continue to figure out this metagame and determine what the problems of it actually are, I don't quite see this as a broken checking broken situation; it's more complicated than that. If it isn't naturally prioritized then I don't really think I would clamor to see it removed ASAP, but if it's removed I'm not really gonna complain.

Really good, but not broken

I never really thought Kingambit was on the level of broken as others have; maybe it was troll of me to say it took skill to use early on, but I do think it's a bit of a rougher climate for Kingambit than it was before and does make it more complicated to use to its fullest. This metagame is being dominated hardcore by bulky Sucker Punch resistances and disruptive Teras that impede its gameplan. But despite that, its healthy qualities do stand out more than they have before with the broken elements being a bit suppressed, so I'm honestly pretty chill with its place in the current metagame.

Ban Tera Blast

This speaks for itself, lol. Enamorus is fine without Stellar Tera Blast.

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If I had to rank things based on how pressing/broken I see them, my top five would rank as follows:

1: Kyurem
2: Enamorus/Tera Blast
3: Roaring Moon
4: Volcarona
5: Iron Boulder

(I'm not rating Gouging Fire yet because I don't know what I'm doing with it LOL. tentatively above roaring moon ig)

Hope this was informative!